SWG Strategy
 

Please forgive me if I am being too presumptuous by making a suggestion.

I am operating under the assumption that as Imperials, the Legion intends to significantly address the issue of the identification and eradication of force sensitive characters once they begin appearing.

I would also assume that in view of the significant threat that a full blown Jedi Master would have on the SWG realm, and to the Legion, every effort will be taken to protect and develop any Legionnaire with force sensitivity with the ultimate goal of assisting that individual achieve Jedi Mastership.

In lieu of the aforementioned, my suggestion is that should a member of the Legion develop a coveted Force Sensitive spot that all care should be given to protect that individual from other Imperials, and that the Legion should do everything in its power to support the individual with his/her Jedi training. I make such suggestion because should the ranks of the legion contain a Jedi Master, in conjunction to the considerable size, and weight of the membership's combined knowledge and experience, the inevitable exponential control of the SW Galaxy will be achieved.

Am I stating the obvious?

why would u be interested in legion superiourity???

as far as i can see u havent applied for membership so there is a critical lack of consideration (give and take in non legal language)

Curiousity aint a crime killerbee :D

Didn not mean to offend.
 

I hope my post did not offend. That was not my intention.

To answer your question:

"why would u be interested in legion superiourity???"

As I stated in my introduction, I have every desire to acquaint myself with your members, and will immediately apply for membership should one of your members consider me worthy of sponsorship.

I am interested in legion superiority for the simple reason that after researching your association, your mission statement, and your membership criteria, it has become abundantly clear that the Legion and I possess a shared vision of what the quality of the online gaming experience should aspire to. I take my online gaming seriously, and it appears that the legion does as well. My ultimate goal, of course, is to have fun, and I have found that when aligned with an organization with a membership of experienced and directed members the online gaming experience is enhanced immeasurably.

"as far as i can see u havent applied for membership so there is a critical lack of consideration (give and take in non legal language)"

On the contrary, the entire premise of the SWG player association calls for sympathizer status prior to obtaining membership. Although the SWG realm has not been activated for exploration, I have taken the necessary steps to identify what clearly appears to be an organization with articuable and tangible directives. I am thoroughly impressed with the Legion, and what the Legion has to offer. I recognize that I must “pay my dues” before I may be considered for the privilege of membership, and my presence on your forum is my first step in that direction.

Conversely, should I be granted the privilege of membership, I am confident that my membership will be mutually beneficial. As you have adroitly identified, I am an attorney by trade. I can assure you that should someone wish to sponsor me for membership, and should I be ultimately accepted into your ranks, I will utilize my training in the area of research, analysis, and strategy to effectively ascertain any goal of the Legion.

I am fully cognizant of the fact that service is a prerequisite to “citizenship”, and I enthusiastically offer my services with this goal in mind.

Good motivation, think u would be good asset to the legion if ppl got to know you

Not to be redundant, but has anyone considered my orginal query regarding Force Sensitivity?

J.R.

Before even thinking of this, would it not be best to know how they decide to include force sensitivity in the end..?

No use in deciding on this stuff before we even know what there IS to discuss.....

Lack of Info on FS
 

From what I've read, Force Sensitivity, or more specifically the achievement of an extra force sensitive slot, will be a VERY closely guarded secret by the developers because they intend on keeping Jedi numbers extremely low in tune with the spirit of the films. I've also read that if FS numbers start to grow they will consider shutting off force sensitivity all together.

Apparently, there is no way to predict how or why an individual became FS in the first place, and even if you become FS you may have no idea how you achieved it, and most likely will be unable to articulate, or even reproduce any specific formula which will lead another non FS character towards force sensitivity. The whole concept is pretty freaking fascinating if you ask me.

With this in mind, I would think that if an Imperial becomes force sensitive that it would be prudent, from the onset, to pursue Jedi Mastership. I consider it a race to see who can get to the top of the food chain first. Whoever gets there first will be so powerful it will take a considerable number of powerful non FS characters to turn it into a blue glowie, and I just don't like the idea of an unopposed Jedi Master in the ranks of the Rebels.

Jedi Mastership, may very well be an almost impossible achievement, but then again, you can't hit it out of the park unless you first take a swing.

On a sidenote, im thoroughly impressed with the standard of your posting - ive only read 3 of your posts and already i like you. i would recommend you get on IRC and get conversing with people, as well as on the boards :)

as to the issue of FS, i have no real insight into the matter, so cant comment :)

I have to agree with RS here.... get on our irc server mate :)

I would love to discuss this further on there :) And the standard of your posts show exactly what i personally look for in a potential new member.

This will sound stupid but you've pretty much hit the nail on the head with what i've been thinking about force sensitive character slots. My main problem with it has always been if it takes a long time to get the slot you will either be forced to stop playing with a character you have been building for a long time, or spread your time between 2 characters which i can't help feeling will in the end will be bad for both.

IRC
 

I plan on getting on IRC as soon as I figure the damn thing out. I downloaded it today at the office but I think my firewall prevents me from access. I'm going to give it another shot at home and see if I have better luck. Any guidance will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the compliments by the way, and I want you to know, that I can't get enough of this, and am looking forward to further discussions.

JR

P.S.

I have also thought about that very issue (having to start from scratch with a new FS character that is subject to perma death), and I agree with you. BUT, sometimes you simply have to take one for the team, and neglect your already developed character with the hopes of ultimately strenghtening your association.

I must refer back to my suggestion of utilizing the combined strength of the legion to assist in the development of FS characters. I like to use the analogy of putting a red jersey on your quarterback. My thought process is that one of the primary objectives of any player association should be to have a JM in its ranks so that he/she may be able to train other newly force sensitive characters. Can you imagine having even a small army of Jedi Knights. Two or three could potentially wipe out an entire rival rebel association by themselves.

It very well may be that an individual will never even achieve force sensitivity during his/her SWG experience, but I know that if I become force sensitive I think I would be neglectful by not making the attempt.

JR

From wot i understood a while ago (correct me if im wrong) you can not notice that u have it so might develop yer char as planned and never know u r FS. Saying that i dont hope im the one getting FS in legion and knowing about it coz then id feel obligated to be online soo much. and i cant get online at work

(IRC will most likely get blocked by firewall so try it at home)

agreed, very high standard of posting.

and your reply to my post is highly impressive. p.s. what area of law do u specilise in?? (i got essays comin up hehe)


have to say we have an entire forum devoted to swg, with 16,000 posts or so, so if curiousity gets ya u could be reading them for a loooong time.


as for protecting JMs, i think it should be pointed out powerful NPCs will hunt them, so to have 20 or so peeps dedicated to defending a JM might not be sufficient. it would also be a high cost to the guild.

as for legions attitude to FS and Jedis, i think it can be sumarised in one sentance.

"if it happens to a member, then we will deal with it"

dont feel like we arnt even planning for it, its just gonna be so rare legion could get thru the entire game without ever having a single member become FS let alone develop that skill to JM status.
plus the unique features of FS status i feel make effective planning all but impossible.
as for the question would legion have jedis concidering were imperials, let me assure you, legion doesnt dump its members, as far as iam aware our requirements are dedication, loyalty, and you choose imperial sympathies ;) .

Re: IRC
 

i agree on the strength of having force sensitive characters on side, and i dont there is anyone who gained a FS slot that could concievably not use it, hell being a jedi is everyones dream :)

please never use American Football in an analogy again :) most of us are europeans, and i have not even the simplest understanding of the game :) as far as i can ascertain, it involves 10 seconds of physical activity, 10 minutes of deciding whos elbow hit the floor first :) You should play a real game like rugby :)

As to the jedi master training up and coming JKs, i think the likelyhood of us having a single jedi slim to say the least - having a JM training up a few JKs seems beyond the realms of possibility for me :) as much as i hope we are the luckiest pa in the game in that respect :)

I promise I will never make another American Football reference again. ;) Go Manchester U! (Hope you're not an Arsenal fan).

"i agree on the strength of having force sensitive characters on side, and i dont there is anyone who gained a FS slot that could concievably not use it, hell being a jedi is everyones dream" AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!

You make an execellent point (NPC hunting FS characters). I would hope that the developers would not make it so difficult to develop a FS character that it really is impossible to become a JM. We will see.

With respect to being able to identify your own force senistivity, your character will not become force sensitive, but instead a second slot will open up in your account (much like in D2), and you will have the ability to create a second character who has the option to attempt to develop his/her force sensitivity. I think you will definitely know simply by the addition of a second slot. However, I can't imagine anyone would want to use that slot for anything other than taking the to road towards Jedi Mastership, because when that character dies, he/she is gone forever.

Ill try IRC when I get home tonight. Hope I can figure it out!

P.S. I practice United States immigration law.

JR

just to a short answer (busy at work, sorry *g*) - there has/is a huge discussion about exactly that topic on the internal SWG boards.

I also agree that a Legion FS char should get as much help as possible, but because we will be Empire, this is still being discussed and i don't know of any statement from HC about that yet.

cu starside
Ice

ur bloody useless to me then :P

Quick Q Johnny.

did you stumble upon these boards or were you part of the Planetarion Community? or something like that?

I have been researching SWG for the better part of the last two months. I had thought about starting my own player association as soon as I heard about the concept, but then realized that I didn't know enough people with whom I would want to be allied that share my enthusiasm and commitment to the game.

As a result, I started looking into the alliances which have already been registered on the SWG boards, and found the Legion. I first asked my one friend who has a significantly ranked presence on another mmrpg, and he spoke very favorably about the Legion, and how the Legion plays.

After checking you guys out myself, I saw from your forum and your postings that you guys play the way I like to play (serious but fun), and figured I'd have nothing to lose by introducing myself to see what kind of reception I'd receive. By the way, all of your hospitality is extremely refreshing, and VERY much appreciated. Thanks!

I hope that answers your question, and BTW you are free to tell me to shut up any time you want ;) Attorneys have an awful habit of being long winded, and I fall victim to the stereotype.

"Fleet does the flying . Mobile Infantry does the dieing"

heh i like it when ppl post long replys. Mainly because i always tend to end up saying everything i have to say in 3 lines. It makes a change. :)

Regarding the original question, I seriously question the value of Jedis, given that the ir permadeath will make them too risky a proposition for PAs to gamble too much on.

The dev team says that unlocking a FS slot will probably take about a year for the average gamer. If I know the average LEGION gamer that time will probably be halved for most parts - that is if you go straight for unlocking the FS slot. This means that we will all have chars that we have devoped for all that time, which should make them better than any Padawan-wannabe.

Then comes the Jedi training, which is pretty much undisclosed. It is only certain that making it to Jedi Master will be tough going, and will involve potentially lethal challenges that only the FS character can face (Mara Jade in single combat for example).

Then if a character finally makes it to JM level, he will be hunted by pretty much everyone. I know that I would love nothing more than having my Jedi Killer that I developed for a year or more at this point to collect a few JM scalps to hang in my belt. If for nothing else, then for the satisfaction of pissing off some Obi-Wan fanboy that just wasted his past year gettin that far :)

Of course i don't know just hoe effective a JM character will be, but all it takes is one ISP failure and it's adios muchachos - wasting not only that person's playing time, but also the time of the people who have kept them safe until then.

Also training a jedi character pretty much ties up that person from alliance involvement while it's being developed, making the battle harder for the rest of us.

*clink-clink*

http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/s...ML/032926.html

Just found this thing with jedi info.

May the force be with you...Ill have more than 1 char if my main unlocks Jedi stuff 8-O

The second (Force Sensitive) slot will have permadeath whether or not you choose to become a jedi with it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quinn: "Regarding the original question, I seriously question the value of Jedis, given that the ir permadeath will make them too risky a proposition for PAs to gamble too much on."

J.R.: I would agree (regarding perma-death), especially in a scenario where a mere FS/Padawan character was acting independently without the aid of an association to provide protection. But as Legionnaires, you all will have a built in support group to be able to protect you from a would-be attacker when you are in the FS or Padawan stage of your evolution and the most vulnerable to attack, and subsequent perma-death. Because of the Legion’s built in support group the likelihood of a Legionnaire developing a FS character into a full fledged Jedi Knight/Jedi Master will increase substantially.

I would respectfully disagree with your statement about the value of a Jedi. Remember, in SWI two Jedi Knights took out an entire ship by themselves. The command knew they were already dead as soon as the Jedi presence was identified. We are talking about one bad ass mofo. If your association has a Jedi Knight, your advantage in battle will be immeasurable.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quinn "The dev team says that unlocking a FS slot will probably take about a year for the average gamer. If I know the average LEGION gamer that time will probably be halved for most parts - that is if you go straight for unlocking the FS slot. This means that we will all have chars that we have developed for all that time, which should make them better than any Padawan-wannabe."

J.R.: I would also agree. A fully developed non FS character will most likely be considerably stronger than a Padawan-wannabe, and as a result will be vulnerable to termination. However, a non FS character must first be able to identify a FS or Padawan before you can kill him/her (unless you just go around killing everyone of course, and I'm sure this will be many people's strategy). From what I've read there will be no way to identify whether a character is force sensitive or a Padawan unless that character discloses the information to you, or if you see them walking around with a LS chopping off arms. If you are force sensitive I would assume that you will be able to identify other individuals with force sensitivity (ala: “the force is strong in this one”). I would also assume that it will be highly unlikely that anyone in the Legion will be newbie enough to go around telling other non-Legion members that he/she has developed force sensitivity.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quinn: "Then comes the Jedi training, which is pretty much undisclosed. It is only certain that making it to Jedi Master will be tough going, and will involve potentially lethal challenges that only the FS character can face (Mara Jade in single combat for example)."

J.R.: It may be possible to escort a FS/Padawan during his/her Jedi training to protect against the threat of outside assassination. As you point out, VERY little if anything has been disclosed regarding what that training will entail, and how lethal that training may be. Once I know what training will be required to advance your FS character into the ranks of the Jedi Knights, I will have a better idea of whether the exercise will be feasible. Until then I'm just excited about the possibility of becoming force sensitive. As someone said in an earlier post, if it happens I'll deal with it.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quinn: "Then if a character finally makes it to JM level, he will be hunted by pretty much everyone. I know that I would love nothing more than having my Jedi Killer that I developed for a year or more at this point to collect a few JM scalps to hang in my belt. If for nothing else, then for the satisfaction of pissing off some Obi-Wan fanboy that just wasted his past year gettin that far :)"

J.R.: From what I've read, you are going to need a small army of non FS character to take out a single Jedi Knight. I highly doubt that any one non-FS character will be able to just blast a Jedi into perma-death, even if you take one by surprise (who knows if it is even going to be possible to surprise a Jedi. Nor do we know what defenses a Jedi Knight will have via the force to be able to anticipate possible attacks, and control the actions of other players.)

If you ever see a Jedi Master, and who knows if anyone ever will, I am quite certain, that it will take a few Jedi Knights to take him/her out, and you will need a substantial army of non FS characters to even put a dent in him/her. After all, it took DV to kill Obi-wan, not some no-name storm trooper with a blaster. Because the developers are really trying to keep to the spirit of the films, I think that because it will be so difficult to develop into a Jedi, once you are there it isn't going to be so easy to meet perma-death.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quinn: "Of course i don't know just hoe effective a JM character will be, but all it takes is one ISP failure and it's adios muchachos - wasting not only that person's playing time, but also the time of the people who have kept them safe until then."

J.R.: Hopefully, the developers have anticipated this possibility and will address it in their beta tests.

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Quinn: "Also training a jedi character pretty much ties up that person from alliance involvement while it's being developed, making the battle harder for the rest of us."

We don't know this for sure at this point. So your statement may not be 100% accurate, but you may very well be right.

Cheers-


JR

I love the part about it taking the average gamer a year to unlock a force sensetive slot.

In games like AC and EQ they also said it would be near impossible to reach maximum levels (126 in AC and 50 in EQ)..

Now people are level 220 in AC and 65 in EQ....

And just think of how quickly people reached max levels in AC2 for example, it was rediculous.

I know I'm being a critic, but I seriously doubt it will be as hard as we all hope to create a top-notch Jedi char.

My bet is that it won't be a year or more, but a only a few months, before the first tough Jedi chars emerge.

Online game creators have always failed to correctly evaluate player abilities so far, in all games I've seen (what I mean is they've said it would be sooo hard, and actually it hasn't), and I'll be surprised if they get it right this time.

So you get 20 guys and take on the Jedi. If you fail, you simply regroup and try again. Getting killed in the attempt isn't too scary, so you could possibly go kamikaze on him with some sort of explosive.

Of course this is all very speculative until the first Jedis start popping up and we get to see what they are worth. But my initial view on the subject is that focusing too much on protecting the FS characters is dangerous as they are very likely to get wasted at one point or another.

The devs have already said they will completely turn off FS if it is apparent that too many JKs are being 'created'.

Even then, Obi wan *let* DV kill him :).

I'm sure you're right Lanta. There is an abundance of ppl on the official boards who seem to think that making a JM character is going to take years and years of playing, but as soon as some training bug is found it will be abused (or taken advantage of you might say :) ).

I'm not sure about what they are going to do about the weapons in SWG. In Jedi Outcast there were a few nasties that you couldn't or were hard to deflect such as the Disruptor and the FC-1. Both could be nasty if used en masse.

I haven't read that and I'd like to see it. I think they will have a hard time taking FS out of the game considering the amount of Obi-Wannabes that are wetting themselves at the chance of getting to be a Jedi.

"The devs have already said they will completely turn off FS if it is apparent that too many JKs are being 'created'." :)

They simply wont allow people to 'exploit' the system. They would rather there were no jedi at all than too many jedi.

Im sure i read somewhere that the only reason they are even adding jedi is due to the commercial pressure... EVERYONE wants to be a jedi, some people wouldnt buy the game without the chance :)

I just think that it will make too much of an uproar amongst the fanbase if they take it out now after they have added it. Roughly estimated about 20% of the posts in SWG Questions and SWG Discussions is about jedis and everyone wanting to be one.

They don't have to tell anyone they are turning off Force Sensitivity. Everyone knows the hype about how difficult it will be so most players will probably assume that they simply haven't done what needs to be done to become force sensitive. And then once the numbers of FS characters start to dwindle I assume they'll just turn it back on.

JR

Yeah, im of the opinion they probably wouldnt take it out, but im certain the would make it *considerably* harder if it were case that too many people were becoming jedis to compromise the continuity.

LOL

Well spotted :)

There is one more thing I just thought of. I do not believe that imeprials can attack other imperials. Which means that only Huts, and Rebels can attack an imperial FS character. I would assume that a Rebel would not want to attack a FS character thinking that they share their belief systems. So a FS Legionnaire may simply be able to create a FS character and not declare, thereby preventing him/herself from having a target on their back.

Just a thought.

the public use or display of force powers creates a "temporary enemy player" tag so that you can be targetted. this is for friend or foe alike. as they say - be careful only your friends see this.

I guess there will be "known jedi" lists outside the game.. the trick'll then be to get them to prove it in game.

amusing discussion

interest u have much my young padawan rico



:yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:


i can see how having some sort of protection for a jedi would help against massive numbers of attackers, but i doubt we will plan this until the situation arises, by which time we will be more aquianted with the games mechanics and be able to seriosuly plan such an operation, so i will say its totally pointless discussing such a body guard issue till then.

but i dont agree that rebels wouldnt try and kill an imperial jedi.
if jedis were to be used correctly by a PA then i assume they would be sent to help on the toughest of missions (or else, whats the point of having a rock hard char). as a result rebels will most defintly then treat such a jedi as a major target.